Ex-pat Brit here, living in New Zealand for 19 years. I became an accidental immigrant in my early 30s after taking a 'year out' for an adventure. One thing led to another and I've yet to go 'home' (apart from regular visits through the years). It's such a complex subject, becoming an immigrant, and there is always loss involved. Once you put roots down in another land I find there is grief either way - whether you stay or whether you return. Great to discover your series and look forward to reading more 😀
Oh, yes, the loss is real. I don't think it's talked about enough. Maybe we think we can only be grateful for our new countries or that admitting to loss is an acknowledgment that not everything is perfect. But to get something, you must be willing to give something up.
It’s hard to criticize these places that have almost a mythological aura in people’s minds about how wonderful and perfect they are. I felt really conflicted for a long time about not enjoying living here. I felt like there was something wrong with me.
I’ve lived in so many places. I emigrated with my parents to the US when I was 17 right after high school and did my undergraduate and law school degree in the US, worked for a few years, left for the Netherlands, lived there for many years, got a Dutch passport. Then I lived in Chile, France, Japan. I traveled all over the world. So I know what I really can’t tolerate (crime, filth, disorder) and what I’m willing to compromise on depending on how beautiful the environment is, the food, culture, etc. it’s about drawing boundaries and then balancing the pros and cons of the rest. Don’t feel weird. These things are personal and the more you know yourself and your boundaries, the better for you to make good decisions.
Oh, it’s complicated. I guess I like a little mess and a little chaos. I prefer a society where when we mix with strangers, we smile, we say hello, maybe make a little chitchat, which is definitely not the Swiss. It’s really just fit. Many people I know are deliriously happy here.
Moved to Mexico over seven years ago from US. I was 71 and desired a walking lifestyle, unlike Phoenix, AZ that is car dependent. I live 50 south of Guadalajara on the largest lake ( non recreational) in Mexico. Finances: Mexican and US bank accounts.
First heart-stopping experience: seeing three huge black trucks filled with balaclava wearing soldiers armed with automatic assault rifles ( Federal police).
It’s as safe here as anywhere.
Great friends, culture, healthcare and general quality of life.
I'm an American living in Italy for over a decade and have been seriously contemplating moving back to the US for awhile now, but I honestly don't know how I could afford the move and starting from absolute zero (also in the career has been thoroughly destroyed group here 🙋♀️). I'll also take the survey if you need more responders!
I just would like to add to your survey that I found the bureaucracy in France impossible and, after having a one year Titre for 6 years, have now given up trying and will abide by Schengen rules of 90 days in, 90 days out. I speak reasonably good French and tried very hard to comply with all their demands. I’m not saying that everyone will have as much trouble as I did—the system is very random—but anyone considering moving to France should be aware that dealing with immigration and health care can be a nightmare.
Thanks for adding this. When I write about moving to Europe, one of the main things I have in the back of my mind is the hellscape of foreign bureaucracy, and what you’re signing up for if you come with no job or visa--even if you come with a visa, it's no picnic.
Elizabeth, you write really well. Were you writing prior to Substack?
I feel like living in NYC suburbs is living abroad since I grew up in the city. In a way city people are cosmopolitan and May feel at home in any city if there’s friends and work and they can speak the language.
Moscow was great in my 20s but I wouldn’t want to be there in my 50s or with children and being gay married. But it was an adventure and one seeks that in one’s 20s.
Thanks Luke, I am a writer. That’s all I’ve ever been good at. I was a journalist for many years, and now I’m turning my focus to fiction. Substack was originally a place for me to build a “brand” (which is fucking hilarious if you know what a weirdo introvert I am) should any publisher think about publishing my work. But it’s taken on a bigger meaning as I’ve developed para-social relationships with cool readers like you!
Now, let’s discuss Moscow! What was that like, and what were you doing there?!
I was escaping an alcoholic father and mentally unstable mother as well as escaping seeking work after college, I wasn’t up to seeking work, still ain’t, I like school. I bought a one-way ticket, with a fictitious invite to get a visa, that I later had trouble extending. I ended up editing translations of news that were done by super educated Russians who had never lived in an English-speaking country. The job was called a stylist. But I’m a bit dyslexic and didn’t have a fancy education… but I survived and loved the Russia translation world. I was also very horny and gay and that helped me meet folk quickly! Moscow in the 90’s had misfits like me! And I felt unique at the same time and a cultural embassador. I loved most of all finding people and loving them as only a foreigner could :). Sometimes they were other lonely foreigners like myself and we were able to encounter each other without the baggage we would bring if we were in the US, because we had less options and we were in the same boat. But I think most of all I loved having a certain Russian boyfriend who was from a Russian village and who was very ambitious. I loved communicating across cultures and the excitement that entails: cooking and language and expressions and references and attitudes and different histories! His mother sent him a box of potatoes with the train conductor on a train that took 26 hours and he had to meet the conductor and pick up the box at an exact time. I loved things like that. We had potatoes for breakfast and dinner for a long time.
I have dual US French citizenship so I could easily live anywhere in the EU but even after spending many years in France, the Northeastern US is where I feel most like me. It helps that I live in a blue state where the deplorables aren’t as vocals (yes, I’m fueled by disgust and rage right now). Maybe if I lived in another state I’d feel differently. But for the time being I’m staying put
I do feel sorry for Americans as they are taxed on Citizenship and therefore, like the line in Hotel California, you can check out anytime you want, but you can never leave (even as a nonresident). Wherever you go (including Switzerland after their recent existential drama), you still need to file with the US and the rest of the world doesn’t want to deal with you for that reason. Love Switzerland, but it is stuck in the 70s for trailing spouses…enjoy the skiing and travel opportunities!
I have been an expat in the UK, Burkina Faso, Ethiopia, Sweden and now Portugal (and intending to settle here). I moved to the first four for study and work, Portugal is the place where I moved for the weather and culture. In Ethiopia I have experienced both being alone to face an extremely complicated bureaucratic system and then in the later years supported by an organisation that made everything easy-peasy. I think institutional support makes life easier and so does knowing a language and having a social network. Being independently wealthy and throwing money at problems helps to a degree, but it is not the silver bullet (for example, strict immigration laws in Ethiopia don't care about how much money you have).
Please send me the survey. It'll take me a while because I write a lot, but I moved to Mexico twice- once at 16, and this last time at 51. Both VERY different experiences-- partly due to the age difference, but also because Mexico has changed a lot in 30 years. But yes, I'd like to participate. It'll be fun.
Hi Elizabeth, this was a really interesting read and, based on my own experience living and raising kids in CH, very accurate (we live in DE now, older son studied and lives in NYC, like yours). I still miss some things about CH and LOTS of things about the US, some of which may be gone forever..SOB....as you say, we don't escape being American by moving abroad. Strength and solidarity!
When I was younger I felt it was a lot easier to have a network of expats and in China, it's really hard to befriend locals sometimes (though men mostly had it easier only because many of the women wanted to date them, ha!). I am now in the US (originally from Canada) and I really miss the hustle and bustle of Asia. My family are considering a gap year in Europe because we want an adventure, but I am wondering how my kiddo will handle it in terms of the culture shock and leaving friends.
Ex-pat Brit here, living in New Zealand for 19 years. I became an accidental immigrant in my early 30s after taking a 'year out' for an adventure. One thing led to another and I've yet to go 'home' (apart from regular visits through the years). It's such a complex subject, becoming an immigrant, and there is always loss involved. Once you put roots down in another land I find there is grief either way - whether you stay or whether you return. Great to discover your series and look forward to reading more 😀
Oh, yes, the loss is real. I don't think it's talked about enough. Maybe we think we can only be grateful for our new countries or that admitting to loss is an acknowledgment that not everything is perfect. But to get something, you must be willing to give something up.
Why is Switzerland a mixed bag? Why wouldn’t you do it again? Are Swiss people so awful? I have a US and Dutch passport, currently in Greece.
It’s hard to criticize these places that have almost a mythological aura in people’s minds about how wonderful and perfect they are. I felt really conflicted for a long time about not enjoying living here. I felt like there was something wrong with me.
I’ve lived in so many places. I emigrated with my parents to the US when I was 17 right after high school and did my undergraduate and law school degree in the US, worked for a few years, left for the Netherlands, lived there for many years, got a Dutch passport. Then I lived in Chile, France, Japan. I traveled all over the world. So I know what I really can’t tolerate (crime, filth, disorder) and what I’m willing to compromise on depending on how beautiful the environment is, the food, culture, etc. it’s about drawing boundaries and then balancing the pros and cons of the rest. Don’t feel weird. These things are personal and the more you know yourself and your boundaries, the better for you to make good decisions.
Oh, it’s complicated. I guess I like a little mess and a little chaos. I prefer a society where when we mix with strangers, we smile, we say hello, maybe make a little chitchat, which is definitely not the Swiss. It’s really just fit. Many people I know are deliriously happy here.
I see… I used to live in Japan, which is even cleaner and more orderly than Switzerland.
Moved to Mexico over seven years ago from US. I was 71 and desired a walking lifestyle, unlike Phoenix, AZ that is car dependent. I live 50 south of Guadalajara on the largest lake ( non recreational) in Mexico. Finances: Mexican and US bank accounts.
First heart-stopping experience: seeing three huge black trucks filled with balaclava wearing soldiers armed with automatic assault rifles ( Federal police).
It’s as safe here as anywhere.
Great friends, culture, healthcare and general quality of life.
Interesting take on what many of my US-American friends think about - should you stay or should you go? I didn't expect so many to speak up about it.
It’s not an overstatement to say that there is currently an obsession with the idea of fleeing the US.
Right. I know ~20 people from NYC, and 10 of them talked about it.
I will also do the survey! I’m an expat in Norway.
DM coming right up!
I'm an American living in Italy for over a decade and have been seriously contemplating moving back to the US for awhile now, but I honestly don't know how I could afford the move and starting from absolute zero (also in the career has been thoroughly destroyed group here 🙋♀️). I'll also take the survey if you need more responders!
Thank you! I'll DM you.
I just would like to add to your survey that I found the bureaucracy in France impossible and, after having a one year Titre for 6 years, have now given up trying and will abide by Schengen rules of 90 days in, 90 days out. I speak reasonably good French and tried very hard to comply with all their demands. I’m not saying that everyone will have as much trouble as I did—the system is very random—but anyone considering moving to France should be aware that dealing with immigration and health care can be a nightmare.
Thanks for adding this. When I write about moving to Europe, one of the main things I have in the back of my mind is the hellscape of foreign bureaucracy, and what you’re signing up for if you come with no job or visa--even if you come with a visa, it's no picnic.
Elizabeth, you write really well. Were you writing prior to Substack?
I feel like living in NYC suburbs is living abroad since I grew up in the city. In a way city people are cosmopolitan and May feel at home in any city if there’s friends and work and they can speak the language.
Moscow was great in my 20s but I wouldn’t want to be there in my 50s or with children and being gay married. But it was an adventure and one seeks that in one’s 20s.
Thanks for the recommendation!
I love travel stories like the box of potatoes —the more specific and unexpected the better. There is a book in your adventures.
There is an edgy collection of short stories that I’m enjoying a lot:
Rejection by Tony Tullatimuthe I think.
Thanks Luke, I am a writer. That’s all I’ve ever been good at. I was a journalist for many years, and now I’m turning my focus to fiction. Substack was originally a place for me to build a “brand” (which is fucking hilarious if you know what a weirdo introvert I am) should any publisher think about publishing my work. But it’s taken on a bigger meaning as I’ve developed para-social relationships with cool readers like you!
Now, let’s discuss Moscow! What was that like, and what were you doing there?!
I was escaping an alcoholic father and mentally unstable mother as well as escaping seeking work after college, I wasn’t up to seeking work, still ain’t, I like school. I bought a one-way ticket, with a fictitious invite to get a visa, that I later had trouble extending. I ended up editing translations of news that were done by super educated Russians who had never lived in an English-speaking country. The job was called a stylist. But I’m a bit dyslexic and didn’t have a fancy education… but I survived and loved the Russia translation world. I was also very horny and gay and that helped me meet folk quickly! Moscow in the 90’s had misfits like me! And I felt unique at the same time and a cultural embassador. I loved most of all finding people and loving them as only a foreigner could :). Sometimes they were other lonely foreigners like myself and we were able to encounter each other without the baggage we would bring if we were in the US, because we had less options and we were in the same boat. But I think most of all I loved having a certain Russian boyfriend who was from a Russian village and who was very ambitious. I loved communicating across cultures and the excitement that entails: cooking and language and expressions and references and attitudes and different histories! His mother sent him a box of potatoes with the train conductor on a train that took 26 hours and he had to meet the conductor and pick up the box at an exact time. I loved things like that. We had potatoes for breakfast and dinner for a long time.
I have dual US French citizenship so I could easily live anywhere in the EU but even after spending many years in France, the Northeastern US is where I feel most like me. It helps that I live in a blue state where the deplorables aren’t as vocals (yes, I’m fueled by disgust and rage right now). Maybe if I lived in another state I’d feel differently. But for the time being I’m staying put
I think it’s always interesting to hear from people with multiple passports about their experiences. You have options, and you’re choosing the US.
I do feel sorry for Americans as they are taxed on Citizenship and therefore, like the line in Hotel California, you can check out anytime you want, but you can never leave (even as a nonresident). Wherever you go (including Switzerland after their recent existential drama), you still need to file with the US and the rest of the world doesn’t want to deal with you for that reason. Love Switzerland, but it is stuck in the 70s for trailing spouses…enjoy the skiing and travel opportunities!
Yes, and amen to all of the above.
Thanks for sharing!
You’re welcome!
I have been an expat in the UK, Burkina Faso, Ethiopia, Sweden and now Portugal (and intending to settle here). I moved to the first four for study and work, Portugal is the place where I moved for the weather and culture. In Ethiopia I have experienced both being alone to face an extremely complicated bureaucratic system and then in the later years supported by an organisation that made everything easy-peasy. I think institutional support makes life easier and so does knowing a language and having a social network. Being independently wealthy and throwing money at problems helps to a degree, but it is not the silver bullet (for example, strict immigration laws in Ethiopia don't care about how much money you have).
Burkina Faso… I knew a woman who was in Medicines sans Frontiers there years ago. It was life altering for her, and not in a good way.
Please send me the survey. It'll take me a while because I write a lot, but I moved to Mexico twice- once at 16, and this last time at 51. Both VERY different experiences-- partly due to the age difference, but also because Mexico has changed a lot in 30 years. But yes, I'd like to participate. It'll be fun.
DM sent!
Hi Elizabeth, this was a really interesting read and, based on my own experience living and raising kids in CH, very accurate (we live in DE now, older son studied and lives in NYC, like yours). I still miss some things about CH and LOTS of things about the US, some of which may be gone forever..SOB....as you say, we don't escape being American by moving abroad. Strength and solidarity!
Stronger together, my American sister!
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When I was younger I felt it was a lot easier to have a network of expats and in China, it's really hard to befriend locals sometimes (though men mostly had it easier only because many of the women wanted to date them, ha!). I am now in the US (originally from Canada) and I really miss the hustle and bustle of Asia. My family are considering a gap year in Europe because we want an adventure, but I am wondering how my kiddo will handle it in terms of the culture shock and leaving friends.
The kids... that's a tough one. Depends on the age and the kid. You've got to trust your gut on that one. No one knows your kid better than you.
So true!