Really interesting warts-and-all interview.My husband and I spent a month living in Levanto on the Ligurian Coast, so pretty much all we saw were the upsides. We've been traveling full-time for eight years now, our eyes always open for "the" place. But part of me suspects that the moment we pick a place and start trying to make new life, well, the reality will set in.
OTOH, ever returning full-time to the US feels less and less likely...
Oh, Michael, I want to go back… was planning on it right up until the election. No place is perfect, but a functioning democracy seems like the minimum.
Aa a Celiac, I find Italy food heaven. In the small town we spend our summers in, we have at least 3 restaurants that make gluten free pizza, pasta and bread.
I always think of you as one of the most adventurous people in the expat space; Russia is not for the timid. As someone who has moved back to the US you have a lot of perspective on that complicated transition. Hmm, maybe you could do the survey as an American back home? Let me know.
Maybe people who move back to the states are also moving abroad. It would be interesting to know if some people find what they were looking for when they move back, maybe after knowing themselves better. Maybe there’s a lot of specifics that are more important than what country one is in. But I’m always considering if with my specifics another country would work better. I like adventure until I don’t :). And how to have adventure with kids and a husband. And how mobile are one’s finances is always first question.
Living abroad has its honeymoon phase and reality check. Some challenges might exist in our home country too, but we tend to attribute them to the host country.
I believe those who choose to stay do so because the overall experience is positive.
As for Italian style, Elizabeth, you’re right—it’s a sign of respect. I miss this. Sometimes I feel like my colleagues come to work in pajamas, which feels uncomfortable given my Italian background.
The French too, but not at the same level as the Italians. My Parisienne mother-in-law once said, she could tell American tourists because they dressed like they’d come to mow that lawn. She would have been very understanding of your disappointment with your colleague’s lack of effort.
Martine's places are a series of apartments in a delightful lost corner of Italy- the arch of the foot. Definitely worth checking out. And yes, I love Italy. The only tattoo I have ever thought of having done was SPQR across my heart.
I don't know where she lives, not exactly. But your question suggests that you may have had similar experiences... If you have, I think it would make her happy to know she's validated you somehow.
No, actually I am the polar opposite- I went to Rome, single, as a career move and absolutely loved everything about it in the decade I was privileged to be there, I have since lived Schengen shuffling in and out of an Tuscan village, and again absolutely love it (although chunks of my heart will always be with the Grand Dame Roma). In both cases- does the reality exceed the dream? (I had very high expectations) -yes, with knobs on, fireworks and underlined. As for hospital care, our local hospital in Pisa, isn't just world class, it is probably leading the world class. So, no to validation of your lady's experience, but YES, YES, YES to defending the Italian Dream- la dolce vita is alive and well. But it is not for everyone.
The photograph interested me because I see a lot of AI images of Italy these days, but that one looks as if it could be real and looking at the architecture I would think it is in the Italian lakes and was just curious.
I do know someone who is creating a magical holiday destination in a little known place in Basilicata. You might want to interview her (I could ask) as you would then have insight from someone who went to an off the beaten track part of Italy and who has carved out a life, a presence, and yes, a viable creative dream. She has not only touched the lives of her guests, and the people in her locality, but her legacy will be that she has breathed life back into one of this regions lost villages. She has done it, not with a Trust fund, but with love, grit and literally built it back from the ground up (plus we've stayed there and I love her) https://www.theorangeryretreat.com
It's so important to do research into less romantic aspects of places when planning a move. It sounds boring, but things like healthcare, education and transport links can have a huge impact on your quality of life. No matter how beautiful the views! I am living in my 9th country and each has had pros and cons.
Absolutely! And after nine countries, you have a lot of hard-won perspective on the issue. Some things about life abroad must be experienced to understand. It's easy to get swept up in the romance of a new place, and then you chip a tooth and need to find a dentist on a Friday before a long weekend...
Good and honest thoughts! I appreciate it. On dressing up: My Italian friends think about their outfits, carefully coordinate them. The mothers and daughters alike, it is as if they were all fashion stylists or minor celebrities expecting to have a paparazzo take their photo at any moment.
Very enlightening, Elizabeth. As other commenters have noted, that idyllic rural Italian life sounds so, well, idyllic but the reality is far from it.
Bureaucracy throughout Europe is pretty much a nightmare it seems - I say this having lived as an adult in 5 countries.
One thing I'm not sure about re: Italy is the everyone getting dressed up thing. I've been to Italy many times and was most recently in Trieste (which is far different than the typical Italian experience), and I've often noticed how classy everyone looks, even when they're dressing down. I see men hanging out at cafes in track suits, so casual yet so well taken care of. I've seen women of all ages and body shapes who aren't too over-dressed who still look elegant. I realise now that's probably because they've cultivated that image and what looks so casual to me still took them an hour to perfect. Who knows?
Sometimes, I get the sense that Italians dress up out of a collective sense of responsibility to provide excellent people-watching for one another. Failure to make an effort suggests that one doesn't care about others. It's a kindness to look good.
I always appreciate when someone with firsthand experience unveils the curtain behind the romanticized idea of living in Italy (particularly a coastal town, because what's more idyllic than that?). To people who tell me how lucky I am to reside in Italy, I often respond with, 'Well, remember, nowhere in the world is perfect. They just all have different problems.' :)
I really appreciate your comment! Often, when someone dares to challenge a strongly held belief (or, as in this case, the fantasy of life in a small European village) they are met with harsh rebukes from people who have a deep need to defend their dream. It’s okay to dream, but the reality will inevitably be different.
Loss of healthcare access outside of large cities is a problem that bedevils many countries and the writer is correct to signal it. I've fallen in love with a very affordable house in a pleasant French town that has a hospital, but I've decided not to buy it for my retirement because the area is depopulating steadily and I'm not confident that the hospital will still exist a decade from now. Similar to the writer's area, the next closest hospital is the better part of an hour's drive away. You might think that if the circumstances change, you could just sell up and move, but another aspect of depopulation is sinking property values and more difficulty selling even for a bargain asking price. As a middle-aged person, I don't like the odds.
The problem of finding doctors who will work in small towns is a huge issue in France, and it’s a big factor in why people live (or don’t) in some places. Yes, there is affordable health care (thankfully!) but accessing it is not a given. You’re smart to factor that in to your decision.
Great interview. She’s simultaneously candid and courageous. I feel for her in ways that inspire me to be more courageous about my own experiences. But I’m now wondering when’s the best time to be candid, versus patient, and introspective. Because if we’re too candid too quickly, it hurt us before we’re ready. Thanks Elizabeth.
You’re welcome! She did an amazing job. And you’re right, she’s honest about the challenges and gives herself room to be imperfect. So many of us beat ourselves up for imagined future failures before we’ve even let ourselves try. We are all just fragile humans doing our best.
Much of what the writer says resonates with me. My wife and I bought a property in Portugal ten years ago, and we were close to making it our main home (we are English), but Covid put an end to that, then a nasty legal fight with a corrupt neighbour completely removed the rose tinted glasses. There is also, similarly, a growing anti-migrant feeling here. A right wing party has taken over in the Algarve. The writing is on the wall. We will probably sell up in a few years.
Really interesting warts-and-all interview.My husband and I spent a month living in Levanto on the Ligurian Coast, so pretty much all we saw were the upsides. We've been traveling full-time for eight years now, our eyes always open for "the" place. But part of me suspects that the moment we pick a place and start trying to make new life, well, the reality will set in.
OTOH, ever returning full-time to the US feels less and less likely...
Aucun problème! 😉
Oh, Michael, I want to go back… was planning on it right up until the election. No place is perfect, but a functioning democracy seems like the minimum.
Yup, along with a populace not so easily misled into supporting this...inhumane shitshow, pardon my French.
I love these interviews! I find them so interesting because they are so honest!
😉
Yes, and it’s easier when you don’t have to face your neighbors or in-laws afterwards!
LOL! Totally! Excellent point!
Aa a Celiac, I find Italy food heaven. In the small town we spend our summers in, we have at least 3 restaurants that make gluten free pizza, pasta and bread.
I appreciated the honesty in the interview.
I always think of you as one of the most adventurous people in the expat space; Russia is not for the timid. As someone who has moved back to the US you have a lot of perspective on that complicated transition. Hmm, maybe you could do the survey as an American back home? Let me know.
Me too, Luke. It’s rare for someone to share a potentially unpopular opinion… especially now when nuance has left the building.
Maybe people who move back to the states are also moving abroad. It would be interesting to know if some people find what they were looking for when they move back, maybe after knowing themselves better. Maybe there’s a lot of specifics that are more important than what country one is in. But I’m always considering if with my specifics another country would work better. I like adventure until I don’t :). And how to have adventure with kids and a husband. And how mobile are one’s finances is always first question.
Living abroad has its honeymoon phase and reality check. Some challenges might exist in our home country too, but we tend to attribute them to the host country.
I believe those who choose to stay do so because the overall experience is positive.
As for Italian style, Elizabeth, you’re right—it’s a sign of respect. I miss this. Sometimes I feel like my colleagues come to work in pajamas, which feels uncomfortable given my Italian background.
We all see things through our own filters.
The French too, but not at the same level as the Italians. My Parisienne mother-in-law once said, she could tell American tourists because they dressed like they’d come to mow that lawn. She would have been very understanding of your disappointment with your colleague’s lack of effort.
So now I have to know…is that photograph from one of the Italian lakes up north?
The hotel looks amazing! Thanks for sharing, and I’m delighted your life in Italy is everything you dreamed of.
Martine's places are a series of apartments in a delightful lost corner of Italy- the arch of the foot. Definitely worth checking out. And yes, I love Italy. The only tattoo I have ever thought of having done was SPQR across my heart.
I don't know where she lives, not exactly. But your question suggests that you may have had similar experiences... If you have, I think it would make her happy to know she's validated you somehow.
No, actually I am the polar opposite- I went to Rome, single, as a career move and absolutely loved everything about it in the decade I was privileged to be there, I have since lived Schengen shuffling in and out of an Tuscan village, and again absolutely love it (although chunks of my heart will always be with the Grand Dame Roma). In both cases- does the reality exceed the dream? (I had very high expectations) -yes, with knobs on, fireworks and underlined. As for hospital care, our local hospital in Pisa, isn't just world class, it is probably leading the world class. So, no to validation of your lady's experience, but YES, YES, YES to defending the Italian Dream- la dolce vita is alive and well. But it is not for everyone.
The photograph interested me because I see a lot of AI images of Italy these days, but that one looks as if it could be real and looking at the architecture I would think it is in the Italian lakes and was just curious.
I do know someone who is creating a magical holiday destination in a little known place in Basilicata. You might want to interview her (I could ask) as you would then have insight from someone who went to an off the beaten track part of Italy and who has carved out a life, a presence, and yes, a viable creative dream. She has not only touched the lives of her guests, and the people in her locality, but her legacy will be that she has breathed life back into one of this regions lost villages. She has done it, not with a Trust fund, but with love, grit and literally built it back from the ground up (plus we've stayed there and I love her) https://www.theorangeryretreat.com
It's so important to do research into less romantic aspects of places when planning a move. It sounds boring, but things like healthcare, education and transport links can have a huge impact on your quality of life. No matter how beautiful the views! I am living in my 9th country and each has had pros and cons.
Absolutely! And after nine countries, you have a lot of hard-won perspective on the issue. Some things about life abroad must be experienced to understand. It's easy to get swept up in the romance of a new place, and then you chip a tooth and need to find a dentist on a Friday before a long weekend...
Good and honest thoughts! I appreciate it. On dressing up: My Italian friends think about their outfits, carefully coordinate them. The mothers and daughters alike, it is as if they were all fashion stylists or minor celebrities expecting to have a paparazzo take their photo at any moment.
My friend's mom wouldn't take the trash out without putting lipstick on first!
Very enlightening, Elizabeth. As other commenters have noted, that idyllic rural Italian life sounds so, well, idyllic but the reality is far from it.
Bureaucracy throughout Europe is pretty much a nightmare it seems - I say this having lived as an adult in 5 countries.
One thing I'm not sure about re: Italy is the everyone getting dressed up thing. I've been to Italy many times and was most recently in Trieste (which is far different than the typical Italian experience), and I've often noticed how classy everyone looks, even when they're dressing down. I see men hanging out at cafes in track suits, so casual yet so well taken care of. I've seen women of all ages and body shapes who aren't too over-dressed who still look elegant. I realise now that's probably because they've cultivated that image and what looks so casual to me still took them an hour to perfect. Who knows?
Sometimes, I get the sense that Italians dress up out of a collective sense of responsibility to provide excellent people-watching for one another. Failure to make an effort suggests that one doesn't care about others. It's a kindness to look good.
Yelling at the office and getting dressed up only to be judged?
Sounds like working in DC politics or NYC 😆
No really, thanks for the honest and fun look behind the curtain at 🇮🇹 Italy ! 🍝🍷
Hah!!
I always appreciate when someone with firsthand experience unveils the curtain behind the romanticized idea of living in Italy (particularly a coastal town, because what's more idyllic than that?). To people who tell me how lucky I am to reside in Italy, I often respond with, 'Well, remember, nowhere in the world is perfect. They just all have different problems.' :)
I really appreciate your comment! Often, when someone dares to challenge a strongly held belief (or, as in this case, the fantasy of life in a small European village) they are met with harsh rebukes from people who have a deep need to defend their dream. It’s okay to dream, but the reality will inevitably be different.
Loss of healthcare access outside of large cities is a problem that bedevils many countries and the writer is correct to signal it. I've fallen in love with a very affordable house in a pleasant French town that has a hospital, but I've decided not to buy it for my retirement because the area is depopulating steadily and I'm not confident that the hospital will still exist a decade from now. Similar to the writer's area, the next closest hospital is the better part of an hour's drive away. You might think that if the circumstances change, you could just sell up and move, but another aspect of depopulation is sinking property values and more difficulty selling even for a bargain asking price. As a middle-aged person, I don't like the odds.
The problem of finding doctors who will work in small towns is a huge issue in France, and it’s a big factor in why people live (or don’t) in some places. Yes, there is affordable health care (thankfully!) but accessing it is not a given. You’re smart to factor that in to your decision.
Great interview. She’s simultaneously candid and courageous. I feel for her in ways that inspire me to be more courageous about my own experiences. But I’m now wondering when’s the best time to be candid, versus patient, and introspective. Because if we’re too candid too quickly, it hurt us before we’re ready. Thanks Elizabeth.
You’re welcome! She did an amazing job. And you’re right, she’s honest about the challenges and gives herself room to be imperfect. So many of us beat ourselves up for imagined future failures before we’ve even let ourselves try. We are all just fragile humans doing our best.
Thank you! Of course, I want to know the person’s age and provence/region!
Oh girl, everyone is younger now… my doctor is like a child. How did that happen?!
She’s younger than you think, but with an old soul.
She seems younger to me, but that’s probably because I am older!! It’s all relative!!
Much of what the writer says resonates with me. My wife and I bought a property in Portugal ten years ago, and we were close to making it our main home (we are English), but Covid put an end to that, then a nasty legal fight with a corrupt neighbour completely removed the rose tinted glasses. There is also, similarly, a growing anti-migrant feeling here. A right wing party has taken over in the Algarve. The writing is on the wall. We will probably sell up in a few years.
This makes me so sad. The world is changing in ways that just a few years ago seemed unthinkable.